AureliaeLacrimae

I understand, I really do, and it's nothing unusual. This can happen if you're exposed to two or three languages simultaneously - you start preferring one to the other and that starts to show. This is definitely the case if you're not speaking the language they are (her family, I mean) - if it's not your native, and I completely natural. If you grew up in a country where your mother's language wasn't spoken, it was natural that she would prefer the language of that country over her own, but still use it occasionally when speaking to family and such. Here, it's even more pronounced.

I have cousins in similar situation and when I listen to them talk in their own language, which is my second foreign language (English being the first), I can only smile and be amazed at the fluency level they'd achieved. It's truly amazing how a person can adapt to the surroundings.

Oh, definitely. You can work creatively with children and they will always be looking forward to new things - it's sort of a must. Their attention span is very short - about ten minutes or so - so if you wish to keep them engaged, you must have a lot of different things and activities for them. That's of course, not the case with adults. They depend on their experiences and can be very critical - especially if you're using a method they didn't like when they were children.

I must admit that I myself don't like the communicative approach and the newer attempts at improvisation. I like grammar-translation, and I am very aware of its limitations (I also study Latin, so it would be appropriate to this language, but not English, definitely). I am worried this may affect my teaching in future (I am still in college). How do you separate your personal preferences from what's being demanded at school?

Yes, I do see your point. Adults are very self-conscious when it comes to learning a new language and prefer being talked  to in their own native tongue. I believe that they would consider a combination of the grammar-translation method with some exercises a better choice than direct approach or even task-based learning. That's something that children like. Just like TPR is more suited to children.

Children are a wonder. They can pick up a language easily. I do believe you could use this approach wit them, but if you're trying to teach a foreign language to 12-year-olds who'd never heard it before... that's when I would falter. I believe I'd try a combination. I am very curious about your experiences. Have you ever tried various approaches and tested how they worked? Which one works the best for you? I am still in college and I will be having my first class in spring and I am actually curious about this - very much. That's why I'm testing the grounds, so to say.

Well, now that we're discussing it, Minerva is the goddess of wisdom, Severus means stern. Alastor was Greek god of revenge, Cornelius means horn-coloured, Draco is dragon, Lucius is light-bringer (just like Lucifer), Luna is moon and Lupin comes from lupus, i, m. Oh, and Nimbus means rain, as far as I recall, so you'll see - Harry Potter is full of Latin words. I won't even start naming the spells. Their origins are mostly Latin - I'd never finish. J.K.Rowling was very careful in her selection of names, it seems.

I've also heard that Dumbledore is Old English for bumblebee. But I am not sure about this one.

Well, there's also a small group of nouns (masculine) in the second declension which are different from amicus, i, m. One of the typical nouns which belong here is puer, pueri, m, which means a boy (puella, ae, f is a girl, I'd forgotten to mention it before). Same is with vir, viri, m, which means a man.

So, puer, pueri, m            and      vir, viri, m

N  puer                  pueri                      vir              viri

G  pueri                  puerorum                viri            virorum

D  puero                pueris                    viro            viris

Ac  puerum              pueros                    virum        viros

V  puer                  pueri                      vir            viri

Ab puero                  pueris                    viro            viris

Some other nouns following the same pattern are:

vesper, vesperis, m - evening

socer, soceri, m - father-in-law

gener, generi, m - son-in-law

This is the long base, with long genitive: soceri, generi, pueri. However, only a handful of nouns have the long genitive, with ''extra'' e in their base. Most of them abbreviate the base, e.g.

liber, libri, m - book

(not liberi)

You will find so much more nouns of this type. The dictionary will always tell you whether the base has an extra e or not, so don't worry.

There are, naturally, some of adjectives which follow the same pattern like puer, i, m or liber, bri, m. This means that their masculine form changes to follow this pattern, but feminine and neuter remain the same. One of the best examples is an adjective miser, misera, miserum, ''poor'' which is as follows:

Sg poor boy              Pl

N  miser puer              miseri pueri

G  miseri pueri            miserorum puerorum

D  misero puero          miseris pueris

Ac  miserum puerum      miseros pueros

V  miser puer              miseri pueri

Ab  misero puero          miseris pueris

As I said, feminine form doesn't change, so it would be misera puella, miserae puellae.

Similar adjectives are:

liber, libera, liberum - free (note: liber, libri, m is book, liber, libera, liberorum is an adjective meaning free)

pulcher, pulchra, pulchrum - pretty

dexter, dextra, dextrum - right

sinister, sinistra, sinistrum - left

Colours in Latin

 

Well, now that I've done a section on adjectives, I wish to add colours as well. As in any other language, colours in Latin can be very useful and good for practice. Colours are adjectives, so they act like them - they follow the pattern of bonus, bona, bonum explained in the previous post.

 

Here is a list of Latin colours:

flavus, flava, flavum - blue

albus, alba, album - white

aureus, aurea, aureum - golden

purpureus, purpurea, purpureum - purple

caeruleus, caerulea, caeruleum - sky-blue

roseus, rosea, roseum - rose

 

There are some which follow the pattern of miser, misera, miserum:

niger, nigra, nigrum - black

ater, atra, atrum - dark

ruber, rubra, rubrum

 

Enjoy playing with colours!

Well, this one is fairly straightforward, so I'll keep it simple. Just recall the first and the second declension and you'll be fine. You use those endings here as well (in most cases as about 80 per cent of the adjectives are of first and second declension)

Bonus, bona, bonum is one of them, and it means ''good''. This means that an adjective has three forms - bonus is masculine form and would be used with masculine nouns, for example, amicus; bona is feminine form and would be used with feminine nouns such as amica; and bonum with neuter, such as donum, so here's how it goes:

                        M                                                    F

            Sg                Pl                                Sg                    Pl

N  bonus amicus      boni amici                  bona amica        bonae amicae       

G  boni amici          bonorum amicorum      bonae amicae    bonarum amicarum 

D  bono amico        bonis amicis                bonae amicae    bonis amicis

Ac bonum amicum  bonos amicos              bonam amicam  bonas amicas

V  bone amice        boni amici                  bona amica        bonae amicae

Ab bono amico        bonis amicis              bona amica        bonis amicis

Remember the rule of the neuter?

Nominative equals accusative equals Vocative!

And also: Plural in these cases ends on a:

N  bonum donum                    bona dona

G  boni doni                          bonorum donorum

D  bono dono                        bonis donis

Ac  bonum donum                    bona dona

V  bonum donum                    bona dona

Ab  bono dono                        bonis donis

Some of the adjectives which also follow the pattern of bonus, bona, bonum are:

clarus, clara, clarum - famous

notus, nota, notum - known

malus, mala, malum - bad

magnus, magna, magnum - big

parvus, parva, parvum - small

laetus, laeta, laetum - happy

avarus, avara, avarum - greedy

bellus, bella, bellum - beautiful

antiquus, antiqua, antiquum - ancient

Something for practice:

Combine the right form of adjective:

''magnus'' with aqua, ae,f

''parvus'' with donum, i, n

''laetus'' with filia, ae, f

''avarus'' with dominus, i, m

''antiquus'' with patria, ae, f

This declension is with mostly masculine and neutrum nouns. I'll enclose a chart from before. The first column is for masculine nouns (amicus, i, m - friend) and the third one is for neutrum nouns (donum, i, n - gift). Here they are:

                    M                                    N

      Sg                  Pl                      Sg              Pl

N  amicus            amici              donum          dona

G  amici              amicorum        doni              donorum

D  amico              amicis              dono            donis

Ac  amicum          amicos            donum          dona

V  amice              amici              donum          dona

Ab  amico            amicis              dono              donis

I need to mention some similarities here. You've probably noticed that Dative and Ablative are the same for both masculinum and neuter nouns - in singular it's -o and in plural, it's -is

I should also mention the ''RULE OF THE NEUTER'' which says: Nominative, Accusative and Vocative forms are the same for all neuter nouns! (always follow the nominative).

Additional rule: In plural, in these three cases, neuter nouns always end on -a!

This doesn't change, no matter which declension you have. If the noun is neuter, it will always follow these rules, no exception.

Some other frequent words which belong in this group are:

populus, i, m - people

campus, i, m - field

lupus, i, m - wolf

filius, i, m - son

deus, i, m - god

dominus, i, m - master

cibus, i, m - food

caelum, i, n - sky

somnium, i, n - sleep, dream

bellum, i, n - war

fatum, i, n - fate

auxilium, i, n - help

Cases are one of the key things in Latin grammar, so I believe that they should be learnt properly. However, it's not that easy, considering that English language doesn't have cases anymore, so the concept is new to most people who hadn't studied a foreign language. I'll try to explain each of the cases,their purpose and function in the sentence and then provide the examples with the nouns from the 1st declension. I'll also attach the previously used chart here, just in case. Remember, it's the second column (amica, ae, f - friend).

You can get the general idea in my other topic titled ''Latin Cases''. Here, I'll expand the usage of the cases:

So, the cases are: Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, Vocative, and Ablative.

Just like in English, first four of the Latin cases are with the similar usage: nominative is used for subject, genitive usually means possession and belonging, dative is either a goal or the case of indirect object whereas accusative is reserved for direct object only. Two remain. Vocative is used when you wish to address someone (Helen, give me the book!) and is always separated with commas from the rest of the sentence. Ablative has a lot of meanings, but it's usually adverbial in the sentence (time, place, manner).

Verbs used will be in specific form, but you don't have to worry about them for the time being.

Nominative - the case of the subject

Aqua fluit. - The water flows. (fluo, fluere, fluxi, fluctum - flow)

Amica venit. - The friend is coming. (venio, venire, veni, ventum - come)

Silva crescit. - The forest grows. (cresco, crescere, crevi, cretum)

Genitive - the case of possession, quality and belonging

Aqua Italiae fluit. - The water of Italy flows.

Amica filiae venit. - The friend of the daughter comes.

Silva tiliae crescit. - The linden forest grows. (tilia, ae, f - linden is a botanical term)

Dative - the case of the indirect object, purpose, benefit

Filiae consulo. - I take care of the daughter. (consulo, consulare usually means advise, but in this context it can mean take care of)

Amicae caveo. - I worry for the friend. (caveo, cavere, cavi, cautum - worry, beware - Cave canem! means Beware of the dog!)

Silvae eo. - I walk towards the forest. (eo, ire, ii, itum - walk, go - one of the ''special'' or irregular verbs)

Accusative - the case of the direct object

Vitam vivit. - He lives a life. (vivo, vivere, vixi, victum - live)

Filiam habeo. - I have a daughter. (habeo, habere, habui, habitum - to have)

Amicam vocat. - He calls a friend. (voco, vocare, vocavi, vocatus - to call, to summon)

Vocative - the case of ''calling'' and exclamation

Italia, te amo. - Italy, I love you. (well, it does serve a purpose in this example, doesn't it?)

Amica, te voco. - Friend, I call you.

Filia, veni! - Daughter, come. (I used imperative in this sentence, whereas I'd used simple present in the two examples above)

Ablative - the case of adverbials

Amica silva est. - The friend is in the forest.

Aqua gratis est. - The water is free/extra/gratis. - this is the so called ablative of price (used for merchandise and buying/selling); gratis comes from gratiis - which is plural ablative (-is)

Amicitia magno emit. - He bought friendship expensively. (amicitia, ae, f - friendship, magno - adverb: expensively, much, emo, emere, emi, emptum - buy, purchase)

Can you come up with similar sentences using these guidelines?

My native language is Croatian. I went to a private Catholic school and I got English right at the start. I may have been six years old (1st grade primary). In fifth grade, we could choose whether we wanted French or German (the parents were the one choosing, really). As there were two classes, one got French, one German. Mine was lucky enough to get German (or unlucky, depends from which perspective you're looking at it). In highschool, I got Latin and Ancient Greek as preparation for the university where I also chose Elementary Spanish. I had that for only one year, but it was very interesting. So, it varies from country to country and it also depends on the school. Only my school introduced English in the 1st grade. The rest of the schools in Sarajevo don't before 4th or 5th, I believe.

Well, honestly, it all depends where you live. Naturally, English is the most valuable one as nowadays, almost everyone speaks even a little bit of English - that means wherever you go, you will be able to communicate with people to a certain degree, which is good.

If you live in US, Spanish is the logical choice, especially in the South. For Canadians, it's French. For Europe, it's most probably German. For Asia, Chinese. All for these languages can be very valuable if you're in the area where people speak them.

Apart from English, the most valuable language for me is German. My aunt lives in Germany and whenever I visit her, I try to improve my skills. My German is nowhere near perfect, and I am afraid of speaking it, but I can understand almost everything my aunt and her family is saying, even though they talk very fast. So yes, it also depends on where you live and what your interests are - these both can be decisive factors in choosing ''the most valuable'' language, besides English.

Well, you do make a point, although a very hilarious one. We find ourselves keeping quiet because we don't want to offend, true, but also because we can be insecure. Imagine the same scenario only you're saying ''You've got much a cute baby'' (cute is a word used so worldwide that I believe almost everyone knows it, a speaker of English or not). The woman would, naturally, smile at you and perhaps say ''thank you, she is such a cutie, isn't she?'' and you'd see your mistake and blush, but that's only if she's nice. There are various endings for this scenario... or course, your idea of the mother running off muttering is also a possibility.

You must bear in mind that I've found this in a textbook - a teacher's guide. I don't take everything for truth there. Some things are written simply to help the teachers and some are actually a real study. For all of you who want to check it out, the book is called:

Jeremy Harmer - The Practice of English Language Teaching (4th Edition) (Longman Handbooks for Language Teachers) - Pearson Longman ELT (2007). I think this may be somewhere from Chapter 3 to Chapter 6.

Well, here's a useful chart. The second column is the one you need for the first declension. The first and the third column are for second one. So, here's it is:

amica, ae, f means friend (female)

SG                    PL

N  amic -a          amic -ae

G  amic -ae        amic -arum

D  amic -ae        amic -is

Ac amic -am      amic -as

V  amic -a          amic -ae

Ab amic -a        amic -is

I have mentioned somewhere that N and V case are usually the same. This is the case with this declension. Ablative form amica may seem the same like nominative and vocative, but it isn't really. The final -a is long.

Some words which follow the same pattern are:

dea, ae, f - goddess

filia, ae, f - daughter

aqua, ae, f - water

terra, ae, f - land

patria, ae, f - homeland

silva, ae, f - forest

I've already mentioned them in my topic ''On Verb and Basic Verb Usage'', which you can find here - http://linguaholic.com/study-latin/on-verb-and-basic-verb-usage/

Here are some more nouns which belong to this declension:

symphonia, ae, f - harmony of sounds, symphony

vesta, ae, f - garment, dress

amphora, ae, f - jar

corona, ae, f - crown

herba, ae, f - grass

pinna, ae, f - feather

Well, this certainly helps, but not in a great deal. For example, I'm reading about the Latin language and its development for some of my classes at the university. The history mostly tells me why some vowels are long or short, how they came to be such or the common root a certain word had with Proto-Indo-European (or rather, a possible common root, as, of course, no one can accurately reconstruct the P.I.E., no matter how hard they try - it's still a mystery). It isn't really useful when you're trying to learn the language, but does help you understand its structural and phonetic tendencies. The historical research of Latin won't show you anything unusual, which wouldn't be, for example, the case with English. If you do the research on Old English, you'll see a structurally more complex version of it - imagine having various cases with different endings and several conjugations of verbs working on the same pattern... that was English in its beginning. Complex and Germanic in its core and certainly without Latin words.

I will certainly do so. I will teach my children all the languages I know. It's as you've said, when you're little you ''pick up'' language subconsciously, so why not? It's effortless and it will be useful to them. If nothing, it will help develop their cognitive skills. One research has shown that children who speak more than one language are better at cognitive field in school and such. What I would really like is teach my child how to speak Latin. I have a teacher who did so. Her son could actually speak Latin. I was amazed when she told me the story, and I found it incredible. It only shows that Latin can be spoken, if it's taught right.

I am just repeating what I found in my textbook, but of course, there are various cases. I am sure you can find instances of men as well as women being ''shy'' of talking because they're not sure in their pronunciation or grammar. I am not shy when it comes to English. I could talk day and night without stopping - I do talk quite a lot. But that's not the case with German. I am very insecure when it comes to German, so one factor could be the level of proficiency. If you're aware of your limitations you most probably won't experiment with the language. It's different when you're forced to use the language, such as living in that country. You have to get used to it then.

Well, this may sound cheesy but this soap opera was very popular about ten years ago. As part of the production deal, Globo agreed to embargo distribution of the original Portuguese version for five years. My friend and I were watching it for some time. She ''conned'' me into watching it and was very interested in Portuguese later on. She kept writing down the phrases and words she heard in the show and then I did too. We exchanged phrases for about a year. It was fun, but there were so many words that we got ''lost''.

Why not use TV for learning language? It can help. It doesn't have to be this show, it can be anything, for as long as it can help you with the vocabulary and be fun in the process. I came to like watching the show, not because of the show itself, but mostly because of my friend. When you have someone else interested in learning the same language it's more interesting and keeps you motivated for a longer time.

Ideas?

This post of mine may be in the wrong section, but as you said you were from India, it got me interested, and though it has been some time, I hope you'll still be able to provide an answer for me:

Tamil is a language spoken in India, correct? Well, what about the script, then? I am very interested in this aspect. I have had a few seminars last year on Indo-European languages and what struck me the most was the similarity in between some Sanskrit words and the words in, for example, Latin and Germanic languages. I also realise that Sanskrit is written in special script. How much does it vary? Is there anywhere people still write in Sanskrit? I know it was used for religious purposes - is it still? I'd like your personal opinion on this. It really does interest me.

Latin and Roman Literature

 

Well, as the title says, I wish to say something about the importance of the Roman literature. Many experts have claimed that it's not really a literature, merely a copy of the Greek original, but it's more than that. Yes, Romans kept most of the Greek forms, but they also added some of their own ideas and changed many of the forms. Then, there's the difference in values. Greeks loved philosophy, Romans loved law. Their works show these two affinities.

 

When it comes to Roman poetry, it's very important, and it's significance isn't only with Virgil, Horace and Ovid, though these three were the greatest Roman poets. There were also other notable poets such as Catullus and Martial who were excellent at what they were doing. Drama is also very vital. I won't even talk about the value of Plautus and many others - the list would be too long. Reading poetry and drama, though, is a little tricky as you must be familiar with the metrics system. They're still beautiful in translation, though.

 

Roman prose is very varied. It goes from historic books and philosophy to orations on various topics. Cicero is excellent at prose. So is Caesar (though I dislike him) and Augustus. And they're not that difficult to read for beginners, though of course, it's better to get acquainted with them through translations for the time being.

 

What I wished to point out with this is that there are so many excellent works written in Latin. Some of them are elegies, some romantic poems, some orations held at court. Latin texts are very diverse. The theme varies so much that there will always be something you like. You just have to be patient enough to look.

I have noticed that women tend to have more problems with speaking than men. It's usually connected to the ''perfectionism'' ideal - women decide not to speak if they can't speak a language perfectly. My uncle speaks German fairly well, but it was always easier for him to communicate with others than, for example, my aunt. She speaks almost perfectly, of course, but until she had that almost ''native-like'' proficiency, she was hesitant to speak. Same is with me. I don't like to speak unless I can form a correct sentence which will sound good. I was curious when I found a whole theory about this in one of my textbooks. Apparently, it's a sound theory.

What are your opinions? Any thoughts? What is your experience with languages? Do you have the ''perfectionist'' problem?

I love audiobooks, but I have a very practical use of them, I'm afraid. Whenever I have a dictation, I practice by listening to audiobooks online and then writing down what I hear (with pauses, of course). It's an excellent way of practicing, I must tell you. I always feel more confident. When you have a dictation exam, you never know what kind of a text your teacher will choose, but if you have practiced for even an hour or so, and had few mistakes, you feel ''safer''. This has never failed me before. I always do better on dictation if I'd listened to audiobooks prior to the exam.

It's both really. People think you don't do anything while you're actually studying so much and reading so much you feel tired all the time. This year, we're also doing some poetry and I can't tell you how relieved I am. It's so much easier than reading pages and pages of a novel and never knowing on what your teacher will focus. Reading is no longer fun, trust me.

We have practical classes half the time - so it's only half theory. There's a lot of things being done and you're constantly questioned about the novels, authors, et cetera. I really like literature, I do, but sometimes I can barely wait for holidays. I haven't read a single book for fun in three years. I have come to dislike the thought of reading for fun. I believe I'll need a good few years of ''no reading phase'' as I call it, in order to finally feel inspired by reading. I do read occasionally, but never a novel. It seems like too valiant a feat, too ambitious. I guess it's only natural.

That's an interesting question, Aurelia.

I am also wondering where the idiomatic expression 'go bananas' comes from. I really can't think about the etymological roots of this phrase...just does not to make sense at all :=)

Well, unless there was some strange disease which made people go crazy and it came from bananas, I can't think why (I'm joking).

There are a lot of idioms which are etymologically difficult to figure out. Some of them are even taken from other languages and that makes them all the more obscure to a native speaker. How can you figure out something which you take for granted? Not easily, especially if it comes from other cultures. I can't figure out half of the idioms in my own language, let alone English or some other, but I do find this interesting. I bet you have idioms like these in every language.

I wonder what you'll say about ''cost an arm and a leg''.

I know that ''bite the bullet'' came from the time when the physicians had to operate without anesthesia, so they had the soldiers bite the bullet. Now it means to try to accept a difficult situation and deal with it.

I never understood the expression ''go bananas''. How do bananas go crazy, I wonder. What about ''basket case''? I understand ''go berserk''. It actually has reference to the Old English and Anglo-Saxon/Germanic/Old Norse roots where berserker were warriors who fought in a manic and uncontrolled state of fury. Some other strange idioms for ''go crazy'' are:

  - lose one's marbles

  - off one's rocker/trolley

  - have rats in the attic

  - have a screw loose

  - pop one's cork

  - hit the roof

  - fly off the handle

  - blow one's top

I also believe that for a beginner, Don Quixote is difficult, but it's certainly a novel you must read. We had a ''Spanish Day'' a few months back... I believe it was on St. George's Day and they said that it was the practice in Spain to read chapters of Don Quixote, if not the whole book. I found this interesting and I had certainly participated. I believe we read the second chapter... but I can't be sure now. It was read in various languages including Russian, Italian, Croatian, German, French, English... my point was, it's important to read the book, but not necessarily in Spanish. You can always try when you have more knowledge of the language.