Does Lupita Nyong'o have the right to call herself Latina?

[lushlala]

I just read what I find a very strange article! Controversy and a heated debate has erupted around actress Lupita Nyong'o's ethnicity. The long and short of it, she's been doing the rounds promoting her latest movie and off the back of that, it has emerged that she regards herself as being "Mexican-Kenyan'. Clearly, to look at her, she's not Latina. But she feels she has every right to declare herself as such because although she was born Kenyan parents, she was also born in Mexico. She was then raised in Kenya and educated in the US. Lupita also speaks fluent Spanish. Her claims of being "Mexican Kenyan" have led to to  some Latino TV presenters heatedly insisting she's no Latina lady, while her defenders feel she has every right to identify herself as such.

What are your thoughts on this; in your opinion, what defines your ethnicity? Do you feel Lupita has a right to say she's "Mexican African"?

 

[aleshc]

She could be regarded as first generation Latina as her parents immigrated from Kenya to Mexico and she was born there. But saying "clearly, to look at her, she's not latina" is a very wrong conclusion. When a person is considered Latino/Latina, that only means that they were born in Latin America, where they speak Romance languages (in this case Spanish and Portuguese), regardless of their skin color. I think people confuse the terms Hispanic and Latino. There's this great article to help you understand all the terms! -> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/difference-between-hispanic-latino-and-spanish_55a7ec20e4b0c5f0322c9e44

[Chris_A]

Mexican-African would truly be a new, in regards of general ethnicity. But if she sees herself as this? Why not? Nobody can really force your ethnicity upon you. Especially if you consider yourself as exotic as this combination.

[capuchin]

This reminds me so much of that Mean GIrls line:

"If you're from Africa, why are you white?"

[Trellum]

 I don't quite agree with the latino term (real latinos per se are supposed to be Italians because hello... Latin language! - but the English speaking people decided to market people from latin america as ''latinos''), I personally prefer the term Hispanic (not 100% accurate, but I feel it's more accurate than the term ''latino'' which is used so freely nowadays).   Anyways, I do believe she has all the right to identify with Mexican people... as she was born in Mexico.

 I'm a woman of Spanish origin mostly (I'm very mixed actually, but I don't want to complicate the things too much), but I was  born in Mexico.  So I am Mexican... it'd be the same if I were of African descent.  That doesn't change a thing... I've met people of different origins but born in Mexico.  I consider them as Mexican as any other.  I mean, my neighbors are Chinese, but their kids were born here, to me they are Mexican.  Same with Mennonite people born here... they speak a German dialect, but we regard them as Mexican, since they have been living here for generations.   

[OmniHead]

I must agree with Trellum, but while Lupita Nyong'o was born in Mexico, I would't regard her as Mexican as she has never showed off any link with the country she was born until after being a nominee.

This is much like Salma Hayek, who is more renowned from being of a Mexican origin despite she tends to forget it, but this is only my personal opinion. I wouldn't regard Jackie Chan Chinese since he opted to abandon Hong Kong to became a 100% American-like citizen.

As for Latinos certainly is an inaccurate to call everybody with Hispanic background a "latino" because while most of us, Spanish speaking people, have a common Hispanic root after the Spanish conquest of our countries.

However,  I tend to visualize Hispanics as those born in Spain and Latins to be those who were born in Latin America... although Iberian is a better approach when it comes to call people born in Spain.

And yes! Italians, French and Portuguese share a common Latin link with us... does Greeks too?

 

[takibari]

I opened the thread a bit curious if there is a language aspect to the discussion. While I didn't see it (or perhaps I'm just too slow to pick up the 'language' angle of the discussion, hehe), I think it's an interesting bit though.

Should a person be defined purely by her bloodlines or the color of her skin?

Of course, by how a person looks, there's no denying a person's lineage, but what of the years you've lived in a certain place (might even be born there)? If you happen to be born to parents who have completely renounced your culture to live in a different place, won't your affiliation be with your home country now (especially if it's the only country you've known ALL your life, regardless of your skin color)?

Interestingly, there's an ongoing debate in our country now about a presidential candidate who once renounced her Filipino citizenship to become a Green Card holder. As she's running for president in next year's election, she has denounced her American citizenship and tells critics that she's fully Filipino by heart.

 

 

[lushlala]

On 21 December 2015 at 2:57:57 AM, capuchin said:

This reminds me so much of that Mean GIrls line:

"If you're from Africa, why are you white?"

Hehe Now that you say that, I vaguely remember it and what a silly thing to say. But then, some people are just so ignorant, things like that just throw them. These days though, many countries are a melting pot of different cultures. The world has truly become a global village. This also brings to mind the case of that poor white American lecturer who was recently under fire in the media, for claiming to be African American.

[lushlala]

On 20 December 2015 at 7:46:28 PM, aleshc said:

She could be regarded as first generation Latina as her parents immigrated from Kenya to Mexico and she was born there. But saying "clearly, to look at her, she's not latina" is a very wrong conclusion. When a person is considered Latino/Latina, that only means that they were born in Latin America, where they speak Romance languages (in this case Spanish and Portuguese), regardless of their skin color. I think people confuse the terms Hispanic and Latino. There's this great article to help you understand all the terms! -> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/difference-between-hispanic-latino-and-spanish_55a7ec20e4b0c5f0322c9e44

Ok, maybe that wasn't the best choice of words. It wasn't meant to offend or indeed hit a raw nerve with anyone. I'll rephrase; she doesn't look like what most people would describe as looking like a typical Mexican, which is the argument that these TV presenter were trying to push. I guess the same could be said of someone like Charlize Theron, who many people are often shocked to hear is south African born and bred. I'm not judging, I merely put out a burning question out there, which has had people talking about, each with their own thoughts on the matter; some of which are not very pleasant.

[lushlala]

On 22 December 2015 at 4:40:00 PM, takibari said:

I opened the thread a bit curious if there is a language aspect to the discussion. While I didn't see it (or perhaps I'm just too slow to pick up the 'language' angle of the discussion, hehe), I think it's an interesting bit though.

Should a person be defined purely by her bloodlines or the color of her skin?

Of course, by how a person looks, there's no denying a person's lineage, but what of the years you've lived in a certain place (might even be born there)? If you happen to be born to parents who have completely renounced your culture to live in a different place, won't your affiliation be with your home country now (especially if it's the only country you've known ALL your life, regardless of your skin color)?

Interestingly, there's an ongoing debate in our country now about a presidential candidate who once renounced her Filipino citizenship to become a Green Card holder. As she's running for president in next year's election, she has denounced her American citizenship and tells critics that she's fully Filipino by heart.

 

 

Well, it's not a thread wholly based on language, @takibari. But it opens up a lot of questions that hinge around language, culture and identity, something I'm sure people with an interest in languages might find of interest. I know I certainly found it a curious situation, and thus my desire to seek others' views on it.

Anyhow, you raise some good points, and I also asked myself the same questions. I found it very curious that the TV presenters who were interviewing her (in all in Spanish) seemed....very precious about what a Mexican should look like, and itched to know what in their minds qualifies as being Mexican. But of course, I couldn't put the question to them. 

The case of the Filipino presidential candidate is another interesting one. I hope she gets all the support she needs

 

[takibari]

1 hour ago, lushlala said:

Anyhow, you raise some good points, and I also asked myself the same questions. I found it very curious that the TV presenters who were interviewing her (in all in Spanish) seemed....very precious about what a Mexican should look like, and itched to know what in their minds qualifies as being Mexican. But of course, I couldn't put the question to them. 

The case of the Filipino presidential candidate is another interesting one. I hope she gets all the support she needs

Oh, don't worry about the language bit. It's the seemingly irrelevant topic on language that got me curious in the first place. I would have ignored this thread had I thought it's not worth discussing.

So, I went back to the original post, and perhaps the seeming protest to her claim of being Mexican has something to do with the years she's lived there (or hadn't). Well, I don't know Mexican laws regarding citizenship. But if it's the same as most countries, the fact of her birth (being born in Mexico) certainly qualifies her to claim being Mexican regardless of the race of her parents. From the original post, I gather that her birthplace being Mexico is the only legitimate claim she has of being Latina as it's mentioned that she was RAISED in Kenya and went on to the U.S. for studies. I'm assuming here that because she was raised in Kenya, not much of Mexico can be linked to her save her being born there. So I could understand those people's hesitation or opposition to her declaration of being Mexican-Kenyan. What I would not understand is where the protest is coming from if she was born and raised in Mexico, embraced their language, culture and all, embraced it so much that she act and think like Mexicans do. If the protest is solely because of her skin color, then I could only attribute it to (perhaps) Mexican pride of their race and culture.

IF it's because of her skin color, I could only think of this: SO SAD. Exclusivity breeds hate, and the world can benefit without it.

[aleshc]

@lushlala Oh no need to apologize, I understand what you meant, but some people are really sensitive about the topic, that's why I wanted to share that article so you know for future reference  I agree with @Trellum that Americans have a weird way to classify people. I mean, you can be white, black, asian, latino and native american. That's it? You can't just group an entire population under one umbrella based on the color of their skin. And that doesn't go just for census purposes. I don't understand how they can group so many different cultures and ethnicities, all having significant differences between them and using one singular name for them. That's just silly to me. Like, I would be considered white I presume. But do I have any connection with someone from a Scandinavian country? Definitely not. Yet we're all "white people"? I don't get it. And it's sad that Black people in America are considered just that, Black or African-American. Their ancestors originated from different parts of Africa, even Western Africa alone has so many different cultures, you can't just group them into one. It's erasing ones background, and that's very wrong.

[Trellum]

On 12/20/2015, 8:41:17, OmniHead said:

I must agree with Trellum, but while Lupita Nyong'o was born in Mexico, I would't regard her as Mexican as she has never showed off any link with the country she was born until after being a nominee.

How could we know if she ever did?   I mean, up until recently she wasn't even that well known, you know. I think  it says a lot the fact she consider herself Mexican.  To me that says loads, because there are many people out there that once they leave their country tend to forget their origins... I keep seeing that in Europe.  I don't agree with the Latin term though, but that is just me.  I prefer to refer to someone by their name, and if there is no other choice by nationality. 

[OmniHead]

Good point, specially because if she wouldn't make the remark of her Mexican roots, nobody would ever know and nobody would figure out it because of her physical features.

About nationalities, I believe that was the point of Esperanto, not just break down language frontiers but also nationalities. Nationality is like many other social labels, a tag that should be abolished.

[Wanda Kaishin]

I'm locking this since it's not language related. I personally don't have a problem with discussing non-language related topics at Linguaholic, but until there's a sub-forum created for off-topic discussions, there's no appropriate place to put it. If you feel strongly about this, please request a new sub-forum under Forum suggestions/Requests.