Common problems while learning Dutch?

[Hank]

Hi,

I would just like to find out if any of you are struggeling with some common problems while trying to learn Dutch. If so, I'm pretty sure I can help out, being a native speaker and a teacher. 

[jcairns82]

I am finding that one of my struggles is with sentence structure.  Do you have any tips with having a thought in English and then how I would rearrange it to fit Dutch requirements?

Also, how do I figure out if it's de or het, I keep screwing this up?

[Trellum]

I might be moving to the Netherlands soon, so I really need to learn this language like it or not (I don't!), and my biggest issue with this language so far is the pronunciation and the excessive number of consonants you can find in some words (all together).  This makes pronuncing some words almost impossible for me, I dread the fact I'll have to learn this in order to be able to stay in the Netherlands for good   I do this for my boyfriend, by the way.

I'm at a loss right now, hoping the best, because I have no idea how I'll learn this language or if I'll ever be fluent in it

[Daedalus]

There's a fairly extensive article on Wikipedia about [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_grammar]Dutch grammar, maybe that helps a bit.

I can't really say much about it myself, it just comes naturally, I don't have to think about all the rules.

[KimErikson]

My one problem - which I seem to overcome is that I also speak Afrikaans and I learnt German at school, which can be confusing when trying to learn Dutch. In Afrikaans the grammar is totally different, as well as the pronounciation. A lot of words are the same, but some mean different things. I found that a lot of Dutch words would be totally rude when speaking Afrikaans! I had to get used to that too.

[Trellum]

The last time I replied to this I wasn't really having any trouble because I hadn't started to studying dutch seriously, but now I am!  The biggest problem for me now is the darn word order!  I can't really make sense of some sentences, which is very disappointing, because when I finally think I'm getting the hang of it... I see an odd looking sentence with  a very odd word order or words that seem unnecessary.  Yes, at times is so frustrating and scary, but I'm trying not to freak out and do what I can to learn more new words.

[KattenKatzen]

The sentence order in some sentences is quite baffling indeed! It's probably the only problem I face... except when you are learning German and Dutch at once. It's mostly stupid, non genuine mistakes where, for example, I'll throw in Jungen or Sie in a Dutch sentence. The grammar between the two languages is quite different though, so I force myself to think harder when I go from learning one to another.

[Trellum]

Wow, you are learning both languages at the same time!?  Awesome!  I'm done with my course, and just now I'm starting to get a better idea of the word order in dutch, at least it no longer feels and looks so strange to me.  Which to me it's a big deal, because it basically means that after a while I might be building more complex sentences

[anna3101]

KattenKatzen, I have exactly the same problem... Actually, it's getting only worse - whenever I try to learn Dutch, German words keep popping up but when I'm actually studying German, I only have Dutch words in my head The words never come to me when I actually need them. The similarities between the two languages make it much easier to understand written text, but it when it comes to speaking, I get the impression that I'm not progressing but only deteriorating at a steady speed

My biggest problem, just like for most beginners, is word order, both in German and in Dutch. Word order is just killing me. And those special little words, like "nou", that native speakers know exactly where to put and how to use but I never do and feel like I'll never ever manage it.

[Trellum]

My biggest problem, just like for most beginners, is word order, both in German and in Dutch. Word order is just killing me. And those special little words, like "nou", that native speakers know exactly where to put and how to use but I never do and feel like I'll never ever manage it.

I have the exact same problem, but I am starting to get a hang of it, after almost 10 months studying dutch ( I haven't been very diligent - shame on me!).   You know what really helped me? Listening to the phrases from my dutch course over and over.  The course (Naar Nederland)  is for people who are preparing for the Basisexamen Inburgering, but sadly is not so complete... I mean, it does come with a glossary, but no grammar or explanations... just phrases!   I still have some issues with certain phrases, but if you listen and read along it's much easier. 

[anna3101]

It seems like you did a lot of studying, Trellum. I admire that. I must admit I've let my go when it comes to Dutch. I haven't practised for quite some time But as it is with any language, if I stop studying it, I invariably go back at a certain point, because I feel something is missing from my life. "Hmm, why do I feel a bit sad, what is it that I miss... Ah! Of course! Dutch! Haven't tortured myself with impossible word order for some time! Let's do it once again!".

I must be a masochist or something Dutch and German are really hard for me. But without them life would be less exciting

 

[Trellum]

On 10/31/2015, 2:02:34, anna3101 said:

It seems like you did a lot of studying, Trellum. I admire that. I must admit I've let my go when it comes to Dutch. I haven't practised for quite some time But as it is with any language, if I stop studying it, I invariably go back at a certain point, because I feel something is missing from my life. "Hmm, why do I feel a bit sad, what is it that I miss... Ah! Of course! Dutch! Haven't tortured myself with impossible word order for some time! Let's do it once again!".

I must be a masochist or something Dutch and German are really hard for me. But without them life would be less exciting

 

 

Thank you  But I wasn't taking it so seriously until November this year, that is when I took a whole month off from everything so I could completely focus on Dutch, but then again sometimes I ended up playing video games for one hour or so    But I always went back to studying it a few hours later.   I did this because of the exam   In the end it paid of, I passed!!!    If only Dutch didn't have such a weird word order   If only... right?   By the way, I also admire you... your love for languages is amazing? What drives you to learn all those languages?? 

[宇崎ちゃん]

@anna3101 and @Trellum

The main downside of Dutch is the countless amount of exceptions to many rules, that's why the word order is often very different.

Somebody else who's probably no longer visiting this forum any more asked about "de" and "het", it's a very common question I hear from lots of Polish natives.
But the said truth is, those 2 articles don't have any rules for the most of the time.

One rule would be: if the next word ends with "je" (which makes the word feel smaller, like "meisje" (girl), tafeltje (little table), boompje (little tree), etc.), you most certainly use "het".
Otherwise, "de" and "het" is entirely used based on how you feel it's correct.
For example, "de man" sounds natural to me and "het man" doesn't.
But another Dutch, Flemish or Surinamese person could either agree or disagree with me.

[Trellum]

14 hours ago, Blaveloper said:

@anna3101 and @Trellum

The main downside of Dutch is the countless amount of exceptions to many rules, that's why the word order is often very different.

Somebody else who's probably no longer visiting this forum any more asked about "de" and "het", it's a very common question I hear from lots of Polish natives.
But the said truth is, those 2 articles don't have any rules for the most of the time.

One rule would be: if the next word ends with "je" (which makes the word feel smaller, like "meisje" (girl), tafeltje (little table), boompje (little tree), etc.), you most certainly use "het".
Otherwise, "de" and "het" is entirely used based on how you feel it's correct.
For example, "de man" sounds natural to me and "het man" doesn't.
But another Dutch, Flemish or Surinamese person could either agree or disagree with me.

I've a Dutch grammar book that includes some ''rules'' regarding to De and Het, but yeah, sadly not all words play by those rules    In Spanish there are very few exception to well established rules, but that doesn't that often.  One example of this is words like ''Sarten''.  A lot natives think it's 'el'', but in fact it's ''la''.  By the way, why aren't you no longer studying Spanish? 

[宇崎ちゃん]

3 hours ago, Trellum said:

By the way, why aren't you no longer studying Spanish? 

On 14/12/2015, 17:08:02, Blaveloper said:

I felt like I wasn't interested enough in Spanish.
I realised once again that my favourite languages are mostly east-Asian.
Other than that, I found too many words similar to English and that made me skip them from my "to learn" vocabulary flash cards (not putting any effort in remembering those words).

But it's not like I gave up on it entirely, what I initialise must be finalised at some point ey?
So I thought to postpone Spanish rather than quitting it entirely.

As my current schedule looks like:
January - June 2016: Mandarin Chinese.
July - December 2016: Russian.
January - June 2017: European Spanish.
July - December 2017: European French.

And for 2018, I'll decide whether I want to learn new languages or improve my 'old' languages (old as of 2018 of course).

[Trellum]

On 12/20/2015, 9:22:38, Blaveloper said:

I felt like I wasn't interested enough in Spanish.
I realised once again that my favourite languages are mostly east-Asian.
Other than that, I found too many words similar to English and that made me skip them from my "to learn" vocabulary flash cards (not putting any effort in remembering those words).

But it's not like I gave up on it entirely, what I initialise must be finalised at some point ey?
So I thought to postpone Spanish rather than quitting it entirely.

As my current schedule looks like:
January - June 2016: Mandarin Chinese.
July - December 2016: Russian.
January - June 2017: European Spanish.
July - December 2017: European French.

And for 2018, I'll decide whether I want to learn new languages or improve my 'old' languages (old as of 2018 of course).

 

 

Well, it sure looks like you have your whole language learning schedule so planned out    By the way, I felt the same way towards french, and that is why I never really felt so motivated to learn that language.  I found so many words that sounded so similar, then I thought meh.  But I will eventually go back to French   Best of luck with everything! 

[anna3101]

On 22.12.2015, 15:20:59, Trellum said:

 But I will eventually go back to French   Best of luck with everything! 

If you ever want to practise French together, do let me know I'm always looking for people I could chat with. Just this night I had a nasty nightmare in which several of my most favourite French singers came to visit me - and I couldn't talk to them properly because my speaking skills were so rusty, I forgot every second word. Brrr. I do need to practise more.

[Vietal]

Hi,

I would just like to find out if any of you are struggling with some common problems while trying to learn Dutch. If so, I'm pretty sure I can help out, being a native speaker and a teacher. 

Hi,

One may try to teach Dutch in standard pronunciation key (Write as you pronounce in alphabetic notations) along with audio clips. I prefer to read Dutch before I learn a language.

Gujalish /Schwa-a 

Haai, 

Aai wud jast laaik tu faaind aaut if eni aav yu aar stragaling widh sam kaaman praablamz waail traaiing tu larn Dach. if so, aai'm priti shur aai kaen help aaut, biing a neitiv spikar aend a tichar. 

Hāi, 

Āi wud ja̩st lāik tu fāind āut if eni āv yu ār stra̩ga̩ling widh sa̩m kāma̩n prābla̩mz wāil trāīng tu la̩rn da̩ch. If so, āim priti shur āi kăn help āut, bīng a̩ neitiv spika̩r ănd a̩ ticha̩r.

હાઇ, 

આઇ વુડ્ જસ્ટ્ લાઇક્ ટુ ફાઇન્ડ્ આઉટ્ ઇફ્ એનિ આવ્ યુ આર્ સ્ટ્રગલિન્ગ્ વિધ્ સમ્ કામન્ પ્રાબ્લમ્ઝ્ વાઇલ્ ટ્રાઈન્ગ્ ટુ લર્ન્ ડચ્. ઇફ્ સો, આઇમ્ પ્રિટિ શુર્ આઇ કૅન્ હેલ્પ્ આઉટ્, બિઇન્ગ્ અ નેઇટિવ્ સ્પિકર્ ઍન્ડ્ અ ટિચર્. .......Gujarati /Transliteratable 

haɪ, 
aɪ wʊd ʤʌst laɪk tu faɪnd aʊt ɪf ˈɛni ɑv ju ɑr ˈstrʌgəlɪŋ wɪð sʌm ˈkɑmən ˈprɑbləmz waɪl ˈtraɪɪŋ tu lɜrn dʌʧ. ɪf soʊ, aɪm ˈprɪti

ʃʊraɪ kæn hɛlp aʊt, ˈbiɪŋ ə ˈneɪtɪv ˈspikər ænd ə ˈtiʧər.  ....IPA / Lingorado.com

Each consonant produces these 15 basic sounds when combined with vowels. 
્,ા,િ,ી,ુ,ૂ,ૅ,ે,ૈ,ૉ,ો,ૌ,ં ,ં,ઃ...........Diacritics
ə ɑ ɪ iː ʊ uː æ ɛ əɪ ɔ o əʊ əm ən əh .........IPA........ɑɪ,ɑʊ,æʊ,
ạ ā i ī  u ū  ă   e ại ŏ o ạu ạm ạn ạh..........Roman..āi ,āu,ău

a,aa,i,ii,u, uu,ae,e,ai,aw,o,au, am,an,ah...Type able...aai,aau,aeu
a,a:,i,ee,u,oo,ae,e,ai,o:, o,au, am,an,ah   

 

https://iastphoneticenglishalphabet.wordpress.com/

 

Here is a Google translation of your post.Please write in (write as you pronounce) readable notations

Hoi,

Men kan proberen om Nederlandse les te geven in de standaard uitspraak key (Voeg als je uitgesproken in alfabetische notaties), samen met audio clips. Ik geef de voorkeur om Nederlands te lezen voordat ik een taal leren.

 

 

[宇崎ちゃん]

3 hours ago, Vietal said:

Hi,

I would just like to find out if any of you are struggling with some common problems while trying to learn Dutch. If so, I'm pretty sure I can help out, being a native speaker and a teacher. 

Hi,

One may try to teach Dutch in standard pronunciation key (Write as you pronounce in alphabetic notations) along with audio clips. I prefer to read Dutch before I learn a language.

Hoi,

Men kan proberen om Nederlandse les te geven in de standaard uitspraak key (Voeg als je uitgesproken in alfabetische notaties), samen met audio clips. Ik geef de voorkeur om Nederlands te lezen voordat ik een taal leren.

Not bad, here's the correct version:

Hoi,

Je kunt proberen om in de standaard Nederlandse uitspraak les te geven (schrijf zoals je het in de alfabetische notaties (?) uitspreekt), met geluidsopnames. Mijn voorkeur gaat uit naar het lezen van de Nederlandse taal voordat ik het leer.

And one more tip: "standaard Nederlands" is more commonly referred to as "Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands" (or "ABN" for short), although that's the purest form of Dutch (so without any dialects or regional slang words).

[Vietal]

Je kunt proberen om in de standaard Nederlandse uitspraak les te geven (schrijf zoals je het in de alfabetische notaties (?) uitspreekt), met geluidsopnames. Mijn voorkeur gaat uit naar het lezen van de Nederlandse taal voordat ik het leer.

You may write this text in IPA using this keyboard.

Is there Schwa-a / ə sound in Dutch language?

http://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/phonetic.htm

[宇崎ちゃん]

Sorry, my IPA knowledge is nearly non-existant, so I can't help you with that.

[Vietal]

Hi Blaveloper,

As a teacher you may learn these IPA sounds to teach Dutch to international students.

You may write your post in Dutch in English sounds !

Here are some links

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/dutch.htm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_Dutch

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:IPA_pronunciation_key

http://teflpedia.com/Category:IPA_phonetic_symbols

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_phonology

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/dutchstudies/an/SP_LINKS_UCL_POPUP/SPs_english/linguistics/sound_phonetics.html

http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/paar001abnu01_01/paar001abnu01_01_0004.php

 

[Trellum]

On 12/24/2015, 5:16:30, anna3101 said:

If you ever want to practise French together, do let me know I'm always looking for people I could chat with. Just this night I had a nasty nightmare in which several of my most favourite French singers came to visit me - and I couldn't talk to them properly because my speaking skills were so rusty, I forgot every second word. Brrr. I do need to practise more.

Hehehe!  I wish my nightmares were as scary as yours   Yeah, today I went to the movies, watched ''By the sea'' they spoke French a lot in that movie.  I thought: ''Uhm, this is definitely doable! It all changes when you start to see everyday phrases used by the locals!  That makes a big difference, if only there were more Dutch films I could watch and actually enjoy, lol.  But yeah, once I start learning french and get good at it we can practice  

[anna3101]

I should also get back to trying to speak Spanish and Dutch with you. I just need to overcome my natural laziness   Ik ben zeer lui...