Happa Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Hello everyone. I'm just a beginner of German, and I'm stuck in a problem which may be an easy one for almost all the persons here. If anyone leads me to the right understanding for this problem, it would be very helpful for me. "He can compose music like Beethoven." If this sentence is translated into German, which is the correct one in terms of word order? (1) Er kann Musik komponieren wie Beethoven. (2) Er kann Musik wie Beethoven komponieren. I've read some books on German grammar, but I can't solve this problem till now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
宇崎ちゃん Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Number 2 is more natural, and therefore more correct. To help you understand the problem: The first verb in a German sentence is SVO (like in English), but any next verb in the same sentence is SOV (like in Japanese). "Kann" is the first verb, and "komponieren" is the second verb and therefore, "komponieren" comes at the end of the sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happa Posted February 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 On 2017年2月6日 at 4:06 PM, Blaveloper said: Number 2 is more natural, and therefore more correct. To help you understand the problem: The first verb in a German sentence is SVO (like in English), but any next verb in the same sentence is SOV (like in Japanese). "Kann" is the first verb, and "komponieren" is the second verb and therefore, "komponieren" comes at the end of the sentence. Thank you for the reply and the good advice. It's very helpful for me. Now I'd like to explain what was the origin of my question. A couple of days ago, I encountered a German sentence in a web site where clasical music fans gather. The sentence was like this "Ich kenne niemanden, der die himmlischen Längen der Musik so vollendet ausloten kann wie xxxx." (xxxx is the replacement of a certain conductor's name. I think it had better not write his real name here) I could somehow understand the meaning of this sentence, but it had "wie xxxx" at the end. It was out of my knowledge of German grammar. The word of "wie" or the words of "wie xxxx" might raise exceptions of normal German grammar...I thought like this, so I wrote my first statement in a simplified way. If you have time to spare, please teach me the correct form of that German sentence. I presume that "Ich kenne niemanden, der die himmlischen Längen der Musik wie xxxx so vollendet ausloten kann." is the correct one, but I'm not confident of that. Anyway, thank you for the comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
宇崎ちゃん Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 I am not too comfortable with German as much as I used to. The Dutch grammar is mostly identical to the German grammar, so I was able to answer your previous question and give an explanation. The owner of this site ( @linguaholic ) is a native German speaker, maybe he can give you a more proper answer for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linguaholic Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 On 6.2.2017 at 0:18 PM, Blaveloper said: I am not too comfortable with German as much as I used to. The Dutch grammar is mostly identical to the German grammar, so I was able to answer your previous question and give an explanation. The owner of this site ( @linguaholic ) is a native German speaker, maybe he can give you a more proper answer for this one. Blaveloper is right about the answer of the original question. I will have a look at the other question and try to answer :=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happa Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 6 hours ago, linguaholic said: Blaveloper is right about the answer of the original question. I will have a look at the other question and try to answer :=) Thank you for the offering. I am very glad to have it from you. I'll upload my next statement with questions in 2 or 3 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happa Posted February 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 2017年2月6日 at 8:18 PM, Blaveloper said: I am not too comfortable with German as much as I used to. The Dutch grammar is mostly identical to the German grammar, so I was able to answer your previous question and give an explanation. The owner of this site ( @linguaholic ) is a native German speaker, maybe he can give you a more proper answer for this one. Hello, Blaveloper. Thank you for your kindness to connect me to linguaholic. In adition, your remark for my first question was a big help to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happa Posted February 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 2017年2月8日 at 3:01 PM, linguaholic said: Blaveloper is right about the answer of the original question. I will have a look at the other question and try to answer :=) Hello, linguaholic. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. As I mentioned before in this thread, I have questions for the sentence below. "Ich kenne niemanden, der die himmlischen Längen der Musik so vollendet ausloten kann wie xxxx." (xxxx is the replacement of a certain conductor's name of clasical music) Question 2 and Question 3 might be incompatible, so please adjust the style of answering freely to what you feel comfortable with. I don't think answering on a one-to-one basis is indispensable. ● Question 1 : Is the word order of this sentence correct in terms of German grammar? ● Question 2 : If it is correct, the "wie xxxx" in this sentence seems to form a exceptional word order, compared to other normal German words. Is this thinking on the right track? << This sentence has a relative clause which ends by a finite verb(kann). Usually, no words can follow a finite verb of a relative clause directly (without comma). However, in this case, "wie xxxx" follows the finite verb directly. In addition, it might change the end of the relative clause from "kann" to "xxxx"(noun). Anyway, "wie xxxx" seems to be able to form a exceptional word order. >> ● Question 3 : If it is incorrect, I presume that the correct word order of this sentence is "Ich kenne niemanden, der die himmlischen Längen der Musik wie xxxx so vollendet ausloten kann." Is this thinking on the right track? ● Question 4 : On the other hand, I think there is a possibility that this incorrect word order is passable in informal written German or in spoken German. Is this thinking on the right track? ● Question 5 : Is it possible to write this sentence in this form? "Ich kenne niemanden, der die himmlischen Längen der Musik so vollendet ausloten kann, wie xxxx die auslotet." << Even in this form, I think many people could catch the same meaning as the sentence in the former form had. However, this form might be totally incorrect in terms of German grammar. Is it possible that the part of "wie xxxx die auslotet" follows the finite verb if comma is used? In additoin, what is the last word of the relative clause if it is possible? Is it "kann" or "auslotet"? >> Sorry for taking your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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