Are Native speakers really that good at their language?

[Denis Hard]

How many native English speakers can't spell words right, construct a grammatically correct sentence or even speak the language right? You could think it's impossible but I've met such people from time to time. In real life and online. The best example of a native speaker who could sound worse than a foreigner learning English is Bush.

This poem is composed of some of Bush's more incoherent quotations

:

I think we all agree, the past is over.

This is still a dangerous world.

It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses.

Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?

Will the highways of the Internet become more few?

How many hands have I shaked?

They misunderestimate me.

I am a pitbull on the pantleg of opportunity.

I know that the human being and the fish can coexist.

Families is where our nation finds hope, where our wings take dream.

Put food on your family!

Knock down the tollbooth!

Vulcanize society!

Make the pie higher! Make the pie higher!

Major league.

It's a real eye-opener!

[Baburra]

I'm not that good at my native language either, especially from an academic perspective. There are a lot of traditional words that I probably don't know or will get confused with.

[Thrix]

They can't be 'that good' if they don't practice, use and improve their grammar. Nowadays nationality doesn't mean much in terms of the language the person speak. There are many people from non-english speaking countries who speak better English than some Americans/Brits.

[MyDigitalpoint]

One is given with a mother tongue by birth and teachings coming from our parents, but this is not a lifetime guarantee that we will speak it correctly and much less that would be written properly.

So what someone's native language is doesn't really matter but how good he or she will learn to use it overtime.

[littleredcookbook]

How many native English speakers can't spell words right, construct a grammatically correct sentence or even speak the language right? You could think it's impossible but I've met such people from time to time. In real life and online. The best example of a native speaker who could sound worse than a foreigner learning English is Bush.

:

It's a real eye-opener!

Ooookay, hold on. I think we need to hear what your definition of "speaking English right" is. Former President George W. Bush was born and raised in Texas, in the southwest portion of the country. Texan dialect and accent is very different from the more "common", "proper", "accent-less" Midwestern dialect and accent we're used to hearing on TV.

No, it's not "proper" English, but it's proper for the region and people who speak that certain dialect. I think some of the most extreme examples we have of dialects and accents in America are Boston and New Orleans, but Texas is also very far to the south, very far away from the Midwest. I don't really know anything about African American Vernacular English (AAVE) but I do know it's a thing and also incorporates manners of speech such as "you be", which isn't technically grammatically correct.

Yes, some of the things he's said are ridiculous and the words have been misused. But if we all have to speak the same way, what's the point of America? I thought we were all allowed to be ourselves here, physically and vocally.

Personally I'm enjoying identifying and picking up bits and pieces of accents that aren't KY-IN-OH Tristate-area accents. When I met my boyfriend's friends, they told me I had a northern accent (They live two hours south of where I grew up) and laughed when I used certain words or modes of speech they didn't. My brother's girlfriend is from way up north near Gary, IN, and she's got the sort of nasally, sideways-mouth Mid-north accent you expect coming from nearer to Minnesota and Michigan. ("beg" instead of "bag")

I don't know why you think it's your place to sit around with a red pen and judge everyone's ability to speak what you consider to be perfect English, but I think you need to put the pen down and appreciate the diversity within a single language and how it develops differently between regions and countries and communities. One of the things I'm most interested in moving to Germany for is investigating German dialects and accent/dialectic differences in words, pronounciation etc between towns, states, regions, and different communities within cities. Languages are not just this static "thing." People learn language, use it, and tailor it for their own use within communities and families. It evolves. It changes. People pick up others' modified usage. Why does there need to be any judgement if 95% of the time, the message gets across?

PS. Dubya could have had stage fright and stumbled over his words because he was nervous? I mean, he was the president. The president gets blamed for everything and people look to him to change everything for the better even though it's hardly a one-man show. I know I'd rather jump off a cliff than be president. lol

[mareebaybay]

I believe Native speakers are really good at their language. I say that because my native language is English and I am very good at speaking English. At least in my opinion, I know most words as well as phrases. I am also very fluent at speaking English.

[sidney]

My high school teacher also pointed this out in class before, she noticed that most Americans aren't really concerned regarding proper sentence construction, spelling, grammar, etc. and usually, it's the non-native English speakers who are more often grammatically correct when it comes to speaking the language. Maybe because the natives are complacent, because it's their native language, while the foreigner is afraid to make a mistake, that's why they pay close attention to proper spelling and grammar.

[Trellum]

Hahahaham before reading that I knew sometimes native speakers are sometimes the worse in their own language..., lol.  I know a lot native spanish speakers that can hardly communicate in a coherent way. In the spoken word they're disaster, but in the written form... oh my! 

Don't just get me started, seriously!!!!  I'm actually upset about that, about the bad use we give to our own lanugage, and how sometimes the young people spells words wrong on purpose, and by doing that this becomes and habit and soon we'll all be speaking and typing like that.  Just see and wait folks!

[Denis Hard]

I don't know why you think it's your place to sit around with a red pen and judge everyone's ability to speak what you consider to be perfect English, but I think you need to put the pen down and appreciate the diversity within a single language and how it develops differently between regions and countries and communities.

I was just making an observation, not passing judgment. My grammar sucks but I get away with it anyway. But back to the topic. I look through numerous freelance writer job-boards every day and have never failed to come across a job posting phrased like this:

We're looking for a NATIVE  ENGLISH writer ONLY

It's sort of dumb to assume that every NATIVE ENGLISH speaker is a good writer.

[Banister]

I can't be 100% accurate to judge whether they are since I am not an English native speaker but most probably they are not. This is considerably due to the fact that, like others who are not English natives we usually learn our first language from our parents who are not always accurate in their pronunciation, grammar and spelling. This means our capability to spell certain words, write and pronounce them  depends mostly on our base which is mostly our parents. That been said I can say that not always will Native English speakers been accurate in their spelling, grammar and pronunciation.

[True2marie]

Denis,

Your post made me laugh.  Yes, you are right.  Many native English speakers manage their language poorly.  This truth is evident in many areas of America. 

However, I believe this reality is the case globally.  Segments of any population that does not have access to education will butcher their native language.

[Hedonologist]

Native speakers will always have the best fluency, but as they don't need to study the grammar to get by, it may not always be perfect (although most native speakers study grammar in school)

[thomas pendrake]

In reference to George Bush,  would like to mention the Reverend William Archibald Spooner and the concept of Spoonerisms. Bush's linguistic blunders had nothing to do with the region of the nation that he hailed from. It is a genuine speech impediment. I have limited respect for his functional intelligence, but his speech problem is not related to his intelligence, or lack of it.

[Humbleman]

How many native English speakers can't spell words right, construct a grammatically correct sentence or even speak the language right? You could think it's impossible but I've met such people from time to time. In real life and online. The best example of a native speaker who could sound worse than a foreigner learning English is Bush.

:

It's a real eye-opener!

I think we all fumble in our communication at times (whether in writing or speaking). Society has to broaden it's understanding as to the fact that not all of the individuals within a country will have access to the higher levels of education as the minority do (some will even be restricted to a life of destitute poverty); and even for some persons who do, they refuse to make use of their resources in moving toward the higher calling.

I get my spellings wrong sometimes, but I am all about continuous improvements. That's why I read a lot.

[Denis Hard]

I think we all fumble in our communication at times (whether in writing or speaking). Society has to broaden it's understanding as to the fact that not all of the individuals within a country will have access to the higher levels of education

Bush is highly learned and therefore had absolutely no excuse for making such embarrassing mistakes.

Bush earned a bachelor's degree from Yale University and a Master of Business Administration degree from the Harvard Business School.

Or is there some flaw with the American system of education?

[pandandesign]

Denis,

Your post made me laugh.  Yes, you are right.  Many native English speakers manage their language poorly.  This truth is evident in many areas of America. 

However, I believe this reality is the case globally.  Segments of any population that does not have access to education will butcher their native language.

Yes, I agree with you guys. I am a Editor, who proofreads ppeople's writings. You will be surprised to hear that native languages do have poor writing, especially poor sentence structures, grammar errors, and misuse of tenses. It does frustrate me because I have studied so hard to learn all those things

[sophiaseo]

Humans are humans. Everyone makes mistakes. Of course nobody, including native speakers, is never going to have grammar mistakes or spelling errors, but they have good pronunciation skills and they know most words.

[littleredcookbook]

In reference to George Bush,  would like to mention the Reverend William Archibald Spooner and the concept of Spoonerisms. Bush's linguistic blunders had nothing to do with the region of the nation that he hailed from. It is a genuine speech impediment. I have limited respect for his functional intelligence, but his speech problem is not related to his intelligence, or lack of it.

Huh. That's a really good point to make. Is it similar to dyslexia, except with speech? I mean I never thought he was a particularly bright man and mostly got into office because his father had been a decent president, but people only really recognize speech impediments like stutters and inabilities to correctly pronounce a letter sound or phoneme.

And Denis, you do make a good point about employers looking for "native english speakers only". But there are a lot of us "native english speakers" who pay attention in grammar class and know the language very well and have both that fluency and attention to proper grammar that the employer is looking for.

[pipps]

I think what's great about native speakers is how much words can differ in different regions or even in different countries. So although there is the proper way of speaking and writing english, in terms of academic performance. I don't truly believe there is a 'proper' way to speak native english.

A great example I found out about the other day was about the word twerk. This obviously means that weird dance move around the world but in Yorkshire, England if someone said 'twerk' this would mean 'to work' or as people in Yorkshire pronounce it 't'werk' I love that example.

[dickybird]

I fall into this category. I moved to Turkey last year to live with my partner, he speaks alot of languages and English is his third. We predominantly speak in English to each other. His English is excellent for speaking and writing, however he will openly admit then he struggles with his tenses, and grammar. For example, they don't differentiate between he and she in Turkish, they use one word for both so he can often use him when he is talking about a female. As I have been in Turkey I find my English has got 'sloppy', especially to write and I now use alot of 'Turkisk English'. I am hoping that writing on this forum is going to improve it.

[Rosa]

I do think that in every society, there is going to be draw backs, whether it be based on inability or lack of opportunity. Native speakers are often times lacking due to these reasons. My native language is easier spoken than written. Even the most intelligent cannot write it because we were taught the queen's English in school and not our native language. Therefore we master English and struggle to write our own tongue.

[marmunmrhundun]

I believe native speakers are very good at speaking their language. I mean they have been around it all their lives, so I would assume they are proficient at actually speaking there language. Just like talking about myself for example, it is pretty easy speaking English. I learn new things every now and then in school but I will always be good at speaking English.

[diprod]

Contrary to popular belief, native speakers are actually not conscious about their grammar. Ask any Americans about it. Not even their spelling!

[jfab]

Oh I am so guilty of this! I speak my native tongue fluently but there are pointers in grammar that I am actually not aware. And yes, I kind of am bad when it comes to spelling. LOL

[linguaholic]

That's a really tough question. My answer to this would be, "it really depends". On the one hand, native speakers are obviously always good/perfect in terms of pronunciation. However, talking about grammar, native speakers are often not that good at it as they are simply not "aware" of all those grammar rules related to their language. They might be able to create perfect sentences in perfect grammar, but when having to explain the rules of syntactical structure (syntax) to foreign people, they often lack a deeper knowledge about this kind of thing. This obviously holds true for different aspects of the language as well.